Anna DeShawn: So without further ado, how about we get started with this broadcast family? I am so excited to welcome our first, our guests, right? Shayna and Chris, you in the building from Bad Queers. We got Rell in the building from Fanti.

What’s going on y’all? Hey. Hello. Hey, everybody. Happy Pride. Happy pride. Y’all all beautiful and brown and golden and shining. Y’all all it looks beautiful. Hey, 

Kris: you, 

Shana: you, Jill Scott in the background. That’d be great. 

Anna DeShawn: I was about to say something. I ain’t gonna say it, but Yep. Jill Scott. Just not, maybe not her podcast.

[00:04:00] Okay. Ooh, ooh. Okay. But we ain’t gonna start that right now. I mean, we can talk about it. You wanna say that? Nope, nope, nope. I don’t. No, I don’t. Cause this is Pride and Isabel Black queer podcast, and that’s what we gonna keep talking about here. Okay. All right. So first up, we’re gonna talk to bad queries.

Trell, we gonna see you in a little bit. What up y’all? Hey Anna. Thanks for having us. I am so happy. Uh, you know, we really got to know each other. We did like the end of the year broadcast together and I’m such a fan of the pod and I want other people to be fans too. Okay. So we are here to shamelessly amplify the work that y’all are doing.

So let me tell the good people, okay? In your description of the podcast, it says, Your podcast is for people who feel like they came out the closet and got placed in a box. Say more about that. When, when we 

Kris: launched this [00:05:00] podcast, 

Shana: we thought about the coming out process and how we go from all of these stereotypes that we felt like we needed to be a part of in the straight community to then only come out and have all of these new stereotypes forced upon us in the LGBTQ plus community.

And it’s like, why? We’re out here to be free in our identity and free in our personhood, and yet stereotypes because heteronormative things happen, follow us everywhere. So we want to support people who don’t want to fit in that box, who feel like they just want to be themselves, and that is the hope that we have for anybody who listens 

Anna DeShawn: to the podcast.

Love it. Chris, you got anything else to add to that or no? Shayna says it well, but yeah, we all grew up with, um, predominantly white gay 

Kris: male representation when we, uh, talked about the queer community. So any way that I could be a part of expanding the visibility and, um, speaking for those who do live in the intersections, we’re gonna do [00:06:00] that and build that space.

Anna DeShawn: Hundred percent. And I wanna know, why did you choose podcasting today? We got lots of mediums we can choose from, choose from, you know. But you chose podcasting. Why? Yeah, when we 

Shana: started looking at this, really when I started looking at this and then kind of forced Chris into this area, but we can we’ll get there, 

Kris: we, it was, it 

Shana: was 20 19, 20 20 that I started getting into the idea of podcasting.

And at the time we were both working out a queer dating app. Podcasts were just starting to get really popular and initially it was just trying to pitch it as a smart marketing play for my boss, when really I wanted to be on a podcast. If I wasn’t gonna be on the radio, I really wanted to do some form of talking, and things hadn’t really come together in the time that I was planning for it.

And then Chris started working at the app that we’ve worked for, and I just looked at him, was like, well, well, well, this person doesn’t know it, but they’re gonna be the co-host on this podcast. And when you get to be on podcast, It solely [00:07:00] focuses on storytelling. You know, it doesn’t matter really, like what you look like.

Yes, we’re gonna highlight and amplify us as black queer podcasters, but we get to tell stories. We get to hear voices. We just get to hear people’s truth, and it’s the one time that people are literally just sitting down and actively listening. And I think that was the most important thing. Like Chris and I weren’t huge on being like, oh, we need to be on camera and be face to face.

And like YouTube live though. We were like, we just wanna come on here and talk our shit. So podcasting felt like the right way to do it. 

Kris: Yeah, it’s super intimate. Like we, I grew up with my parents listening to Tom Joyner, um, and I love the way that he made them feel like, The humor, the news, some of it was good and bad, some of the things they, you know, disagreed with, but like radio is such an intimate thing and I always thought podcasting was too, um, before even starting with Shayna.

And one of the things we bonded over is our love of the read. And I remember being an early the read fan and them starting the podcast Crystals and, and Kid [00:08:00] Fury shout out to them and how. It made me feel, seen and respected and heard, and like in my head, they’re my best friends, you know? So if I could do that for, you know, somebody out there or just like, Make somebody smile or, you know, put somebody onto something like, that’s what I wanna do.

So it’s just, you know, it’s an intimate medium. Radio’s not dead, but, you know, it’s, it’s podcast now. 

Anna DeShawn: Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I agree. I mean, I, I mean, I think that speaks to a lot of why we are in podcasting and some of our story, right? So we st got the E three radio, we playing queer music all day long. But there was no way we were just gonna stay in the radio me medium and think we were going to be able to grow.

I mean, podcasting is where it’s at. I also think, to y’all’s point, I totally agree about podcasts and being very intimate and building relationships with people. And actually my love for radio really grew when I got an internship to turn Tom Joyner on in the morning. So the fact that we evoking Time joiner right now is amazing.

So actually turn time joiner on, I would do the traffic and the weather during those [00:09:00] breaks and. I realized I could sit around in my sweatpants and talk to thousands of people at the same time, and no one cared what I looked like, right? Because we already know people like us do not end up behind the desk doing the news.

Uh, that’s we don’t see us, um, on these major networks. And so radio became a great place where all people cared about was my voice to y’all’s point. Yeah. Um, and one part about y’all podcast. Y’all got segments, y’all be doing your thing. It’s really great. And then one segment called The bad, uh, bad queer Opinion.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Uh, tell the people what, what that segment is all about. Yeah. Chris, go ahead. 

Shana: You talk about 

Anna DeShawn: it. Go ahead and talk about it. Chris. Listen, we said that we, 

Kris: you know, we’re, we’re already off the beaten path of 

Anna DeShawn: the, the white 

Kris: gay male or just white queer, you know, viewpoint of most things. So, you know, we have bad queer opinions about things that are, um, unique, uniquely black and queer.

Um, and we express them when we can and [00:10:00] encourage our, uh, our guests to come on and give their back queer opinion and just hold that space. Um, I don’t think it’s anything we’ve ever said too offensive. Like we’re not, that’s not what we’re setting out to do. It’s just a space to just be honest about certain things that you don’t agree with, that the majority of the community agrees with.

So, you know, it started that way. I think when we were planning out the podcast, like we wanted to have a segment that we could kind of express ourselves, but you know, not feel. You know, scared to do so. And that’s what we do with 

Anna DeShawn: bad queer opinions. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. And we got clips. Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t go there.

No, no. That was 

Kris: like, 

Shana: it’s one of those, it’s one of those spaces where a lot of people feel like if they say a certain thing, they’re gonna get side eyed or shaded or any, anything like that. So we want to be the people that open up the door to those conversations in our bad queer opinion segment, because more people are thinking it than those are saying it.

And so we wanna open up the door for the folks who need 

Anna DeShawn: to say it. I love it. And we got clips today, y’all. So family. This is an interactive [00:11:00] situation girl. And bro should be 

Kris: genderless because I just feel like, you know, the essence of, of girl, you know, when you’re telling gossip, it’s just like, it’s so.


Anna DeShawn: defies boundaries. 

Kris: Honestly. It 

Shana: does. It, it makes sure that people are paying attention. Yeah. When you talk as well. Like it’s commanding the space 

Anna DeShawn: as it should. Yeah. 

Kris: And it just have reset the conversation like it’s Yeah. And like how strong the tea is too. Mm-hmm. When you’re indeed just like girl, like it is, you know what I mean?

Yeah. You can’t get that type of feeling with, I mean, I’m sure there’s other words that aren’t, that are very 

Anna DeShawn: genderless, but girl just, ugh. I mean, bitch is one 

Shana: as well. Bitch, bitch 

Tre’vell Anderson: should, yeah. 

Anna DeShawn: You’re like, bitch, bitch actually should actually, bitch should be genderless as 

Kris: well. There’s, we need to 

Anna DeShawn: develop a list of Yes.


Kris: words. Yes. And so bitch is 

Anna DeShawn: absolutely on the list. Mm. I don’t know how weird it is for you all to watch yourself. Always, always weird. I’m like, how y’all, how y’all [00:12:00] listen to this? What I appreciate y’all doing. I 

Kris: was sitting there, I was like, Chris, 

Shana: what you tell, what you about to talk about? And then I was like, oh, it’s a clip.

It’s a clip. Yeah. 

Anna DeShawn: I, I mean, and I saw this bad queer opinion. I was like, oh, that’s hilarious. Cause. We do be like, girl, please. And I mean, it’s pretty genderless in our world. It is. It, it 

Kris: just is like, I, it just, you know, it takes the story to another level when you’re just like, girl. Like, it’s just varying range.

You could even just be like, girl, like it’s, you need it and bro too. But the, yeah, we had a, we came back with the list of, of words that are, they’re genderless. Like let’s, let’s be 

Anna DeShawn: honest. So, oh yeah. Do we know this list off top of our heads? Oh, we gotta go back and listen to an episode. This bitch was definitely 

Kris: one of them.

I was 

Shana: like, yeah, we had, we had Bitch one brother. We said, we said, I mean, this is a black queer podcast shit. We 

Anna DeShawn: were a nigga. Yeah, for sure. 

Kris: You come out here, you just turn around, you’re 

Shana: like, nigga 

Kris: like, yeah. Yeah. The energy is there. 

Anna DeShawn: Yeah. Energy is there. Yeah. Yeah. I, with that energy, we feel that [00:13:00] you, I see it in the comics.

It’s happening. There is agreement that this is a bag here. Opinion. Mm-hmm. I love it. Now on your show, you also, y’all go a wide range, and I tried y’all, I tried to cut down the clips, but these are, I have two more because I just wanted to talk about these two things. You talk about politics, you talk about pop culture, you talk about the things.

And most recently Netflix has, uh, the ultimatum, the queer Love edition, how messy it was. Uh, Elsie, can we run This clip gonna be hilarious. 

Shana: And so basically during the experience, you either. End up proposing and leaving with your partner and saying like, yep, I will accept the ultimatum. Or you end up breaking up and going off with somebody else.

Yeah, so it is going to be messy. It’s going to be great. Honestly, this is the type of lesbian culture expose. Love that I love have been waiting for. I’m ready for our culture to I’m so for it. Be un blessed, uh, into the world so that they can see. Guess what? Gay boys are not the [00:14:00] only ones that have messed too.

And we deserve to have messy shows and messy experiences like 

Kris: this. For sure. Love is 

Anna DeShawn: love. Mess is best.

It is so messy. And let’s be clear, my wife is a Real Housewives okay fan. She dredges me through the Love and Hip hops. Okay? I have never sat through a whole show and just watched the whole thing, but the ultimatum, queer love had me stuck and it was so messy. I mean, and Emily 

Kris: exceeded expectations too, like I thought, you know, there’s, there’s been other shows, uh, queer love shows, reality shows that came out that like flopped and weren’t great for a variety of reasons.

And this wasn’t without, its like issues for sure, but. It was well-rounded mess. Like it was pretty good. I hope everybody else was full, 

Anna DeShawn: like it was a mess. Yes, yes, yes. I wondering if anybody in the chat, yo, let us know, were y’all watching the ultimatum? Did y’all get into [00:15:00] that? Um, Did you enjoy the mess too?

Oftentimes we don’t get the messy side, right? I think they, in our community, you know, the boys are seen as the partiers. They the ones that go out to the clubs and sort of Oh, is a mess. And, and the, the, the lesbians, the queer feminists, women, whatever are seen that’s like more serious, more committed it all the time.

Like, um, you know, but this ultimatum child showed all the truth. All the truth for the deal. Yes. And the 

Shana: range. It gave us range as well, which was something that I really appreciated. But that was the thing when I was talking about how it’s a lesbian expose, everybody does just think like, oh, they met, they dated, they moved in, and now we got, you know, we’re doing household chores together and building tents in the background and living these perfect little angelic lives, and it’s like, absolutely not.

Absolutely not, and we need to talk about it and we need to have that representation to hear from my straight friends how much they loved the show was [00:16:00] even better. I was like, my gay guy friends would literally just say, so Xander and Yolie. And we would come running. We would come running to talk about it.

And it’s like that’s the first thing that we’ve really been able to have and like unite over on a big platform. Not saying that nothing else like that exists, but like on a big platform like Netflix, to be able to have that. Feels good. It feels good for the 

Kris: soul fam. I’m old enough to remember Tela tequila on 

Anna DeShawn: mtv.

Okay, there it used. It is. We have come a long way. We 

Kris: got a long way to go, but it used to be. Whew. With like queer reality dating shows, like it used to be 

Anna DeShawn: rough. Um, yeah, and I think you speak to an important part here and why also I’m so passionate about doing this series every year during Pride is because representation is important.

It all of it, right in and in this case, the messy party with ultimatum, but a glimpse into how relationships can and do go in our community. But y’all’s pod is an amazing example of representation, [00:17:00] and you are out here. You wanted to pick up a mic, you have something to say. And, and y’all are saying it right and, and doing it really well.

I enjoy the pod. Okay, thank you. Um, and this next clip, cuz y’all, if y’all listen to Queer News, you know, I always lead with the politics. It’s something that I’m always trying to stay on top of because it does affect all of our lives. And y’all went there, um, especially about Florida and uh, I’m not gonna say nothing else cuz y’all say it all in this clip.

Does or de Satan thought that fucking with Disney? Was a bad idea. You fucking with the Divine nine. Fuck with the Divine Nine. Bitch. Like, bitch. The way that 

Kris: you have the Cacau Cassidy listen with the Divine Nine. I don’t 

Anna DeShawn: think he understands. And no one in his, his Where’s Smith Group 

Kris: cabinet on his stand?

Anna DeShawn: My Divine Nine name. Listen your fucking mouth. Not what you want. It’s not what 

Kris: you want. And then it’s like [00:18:00] the things he like. 

Anna DeShawn: Why 

Kris: we always say like, again, if we get past all the bullshit and stuff, like it’s targeting all minority groups. This, this hits 

Anna DeShawn: everybody, right? Mm-hmm. But for all 

Kris: of these groups to now have the motivation to put differences aside, we’re not gonna forget that some of them don’t believe in our humanity, but Right.

For this, I don’t think he understands the miscalculation of this esp, especially just with the Divine nine. Mm-hmm. Like, you don’t wanna fuck with the Divine nine. Um, and that’s, that’s not just Florida’s de Divine nine that’s gonna get in and dig his ass for this. No, this is, this is nationwide. 

Anna DeShawn: Well, worldwide, because that’s a 

Tre’vell Anderson: global effort.

Global organization. 

Shana: That’s a global effort. 

Kris: Yeah. That’s about to happen. So I think he stepped in it and he has no idea like what he stepped in with this. So I’m very interested to see how this goes because 

Anna DeShawn: mm-hmm. I mean, You know, again, 

Kris: these are, these Divine Nine organizations are active globally, but especially in the 

Anna DeShawn: South and especially in Florida.


Kris: And again, you’re gonna have folks from all over that are 

Anna DeShawn: gonna, [00:19:00] uh, make sure that this doesn’t pass. Or if it does, like, you’ll see the, the repercussions 

Kris: very quickly. Like these are literally the, a checkbox 

Anna DeShawn: of all the groups you don’t wanna fuck with. 

Tre’vell Anderson: Yeah. Like, this is not the thing I would wanna fight all at once.

This. Yeah. Yeah. 

Anna DeShawn: Yeah. And um, what I love about this is because people who tune into your pod are not always expecting a political conversation, but it’s so incredibly important to wrap it around how people can receive it. And I think people miss that when it comes to politics sometimes, and what’s going on in Florida is so incredibly important.

All right. We’ve, we’ve gotten in this country right over 500 anti L G B T Q trans bills that have been introduced across legislation across the country. We know DeSantis has been the lead. Um, on, on like showing all of his other conspirators how to do it and how to lead a fate, like a, a hate and fear mongering campaign to get legislation passed.

And I thought that [00:20:00] commentary about what’s happening and also going up against the Divine nine and all these other things that are happening, which is so incredibly important. Yeah, yeah. We 

Kris: always try and lead with, with news when we get to our kind of category is, um, news and culture section and, um, I don’t know what presently is happening now with that because they could always do things on the slide, but I know that after that, 

Anna DeShawn: um, 

Kris: Florida did get pushed back from that and kind of backtracked about not affecting those specific organizations, but.

Regardless, like what’s happening in Florida is a blueprint for what’s what’s happening in other places. They’re learning how to craft the, this legislation and the language around it. And it’s, you know, it’s in every state. It’s in our home state of Virginia. Um, and yeah, we’re always, we’re always gonna keep, you know, um, on top of the news because we have to like, it’s, it’s our lives that are at 

Anna DeShawn: stake.

So in a very real way. And I don’t wanna [00:21:00] pass that point you just said, because our lives are at stake right now. Um, right. I think after all of that happened, cause I think that clip was from March, um, right. Um, the NAACP issued a travel advisory, right. For Florida. Mm-hmm. Uh, H R C issued their first, um, emergency like state of emergency for all G B LGBTQ people across the country.

Mm-hmm. Because of all the legislation that’s happening. Um, Yeah, it, it is not something we can pass by and I think that’s why this broadcast is so important. I think that’s why all these people are tuning in because they wanna hear where they can get this information, and y’all are definitely a spot where folks should be getting this information.

So, Hey, I’m so glad y’all are here. This has been so good. This has been our one-on one for having us. Yeah, yeah. All right, so y’all gonna come back for q and a. So everybody, uh, that’s tuning in, please get your questions ready for Chris and Shayna, uh, for our q and a session with bad queers. If [00:22:00] there’s things you want to know more about them, more about their show, um, Definitely keep ’em in mind.

All right. And now I am excited to welcome up my friend Ou Rell Anderson is with us as well. What’s going on? Rell? Hello. Hello, hello. How are you? I’m wonderful. How are you? I’m making it child. I’m making it. You busy. Okay. You’re running for, uh, N A B J President. I see the videos. Okay. This, when I saw, when I saw the video, I said, dang it, I should be a member so I can vote.

I mean, we’ve 

Tre’vell Anderson: been talking about this. And 

Anna DeShawn: your members know, but you should told me you was gonna be running. That would’ve been extra. Mm, mm-hmm. I know. I know, I know. But family, if you don’t dunno. Rel Rel is a journalist, a writer, culture critic. Okay. They are amazing. And they are a co-host of a podcast called Fanti.

All right. And their podcast, the description goes, it says sometimes the people, places and things we, we love don’t love us [00:23:00] back. We’re fans, but we also have some anti feelings towards them. Okay. Say more about Fanti. Yeah, so 


Tre’vell Anderson: is a show we’ve been doing this show for, 

Kris: I. Three years, four 

Anna DeShawn: years question mark.


Tre’vell Anderson: and I co-hosted with Jared Hill, who’s another black queer journalist. Um, and the long and short of it was, you know, we just felt like a lot of the cultural conversations at the time, um, lacked a lot of nuance, right? Like we were just like, Everybody, you know, just canceling everybody left and right and, you know, doing away with different, you know, different things.

And we were like, oh, A lot of the cultural conversation is just like lacking nuance. It’s lacking complexity. Um, and so that’s where we kind of came up with the name fan tie. We made it up. You know, um, with, from the word fan and the word anti. Um, and one of the, one of the example topics, we [00:24:00] ended up doing this in our first season that I often use to describe the show is like Tyler Perry 

Anna DeShawn: right now, you know, Uhhuh.

Yeah. We, we all know how we 

Tre’vell Anderson: feel about Mr. Perry and his works of. Cultural productions. Um, but if you are someone like me who grew up in Charleston, South Carolina, and your grandmama loved Tyler Perry plays, then you have a very soft spot for Madea, you know, in your heart, in your spirit, right? And you can’t just throw Tyler Perry and Madea away because, you know.

He has some writing challenges with his scripted content, you know what I mean? Um, and so like we, we do episodes on people, places and things like that, that, you know, just like deserve a little bit more wrestling with than just being, you know, black or white 

Anna DeShawn: with our responses. And I love the nuance, right?

Because in my world, everything is not black and white. Mm-hmm. Everything is not, there is a lot of gray [00:25:00] area and there’s a lot of places for discussion. But what we find on Twitter or in these other places are people are just on either side. I’m just like, wait, this is a way more complex situation here than this.

Mm-hmm. And, and you mentioned Jared Hill and I wanna know, how did y’all come together on this pot? I mean, both of you all are. Uh, amazing journalists and well, at at least one of us 

Tre’vell Anderson: is, I can’t speak for the other one. 

Anna DeShawn: You know, he ain’t here to defend himself. Why? Ain’t even 

Tre’vell Anderson: no, Jared is great. Jared is, for those who don’t know, Jared Hill, um, if you remember, you know, um, leading up to was like 2016 election perhaps.

Um, Ivana, uh, Ivanka Ivana, what’s her name? Melania Melania Trump, uh, was doing a speech at the Republican National Convention and she plagiarized a portion of Michelle Obama’s speech that Michelle had given, you know, a year or so prior. Jared Hill is the journalist who broke that story on Twitter. Um, and so he’s a [00:26:00] fabulous journalist in wonderful.

We came together, I. Through N A B J, it actually the National Association of Black Journalists. Um, we were both members of the LA chapter and I eventually became president of the LA chapter. I had a different vice president who got a job that, you know, caused him to leave LA and I asked Jarre, who was a member at the time to be my vice president from there, you know, we just like developed this friendship and folks kept saying, oh, you too.

There’s, y’all got some chemistry. Y’all got a little something, something going on. Y’all need to like, you know, record this. Long story short, um, we kept 

Anna DeShawn: hearing it so much. We were like, oh. Maybe we need to look 

Tre’vell Anderson: into this. Um, and so we were able to come up with the idea for Fanti. Well, we had a different idea first, um, but come up with the idea for Fanti.

Um, we’re on the Maximum Fun Network, which is a, uh, worker owned, um, independent podcast network. Um, and you know, they were. [00:27:00] Uh, a place where I had guessed on a number of other people’s podcasts, white people, podcasts, and they were like, oh my God, you’re so great. You’re amazing. If you ever wanna do a show, let me know.

And I was like, well, speaking of, I’ve got an idea. And so the rest is history from there. 

Anna DeShawn: It is. And I love it. I’m glad how that, I’m so glad that that came together because I really enjoy your pod. I have friends that Tell me about your pod and I’ll be like, you listening to Fanti? Yeah. I’m like, ok, I see you.

Oh, now I got some video clips from Fanti as well, and I think they’re wonderful conversation pieces. So the first one I wanna dive into is the conversation y’all recently had around ai. Because in media, this is a thing that is happening in our world. And so let’s play this quick clip around what you all have to say about artificial intelligence.

Tre’vell Anderson: Think about, you know, all of the, the, what is it, the, what they call it, the deep fake stuff. You can [00:28:00] have artificial intelligence art, right? Like AI art, you can, you can do AI music, right? Um, we’ve, we’ve seen these different stories pop up in many different. Fields about the impact of AI on what they do. Um, and so my main question is what will become of art and creativity, you know, in light of where it seems like artificial intelligence is going right?

Cuz apparently we, we’ve been all at this artificial intelligence thing for a little minute. We just did not know. 

Anna DeShawn: Since Clippy in 97. 

Tre’vell Anderson: But like I

Anna DeShawn: first off, yeah, I hadn’t thought about, I don’t know. Last time I even heard Clippy, I was like, what? What did say clip? What [00:29:00] yet? Um, um, but what I did enjoy about the, there’s a longer clip, y’all, and if y’all wanna get into Fanta, of course you can listen to y’all. So do clips on YouTube, longer clips. Uh, bere.

You talk, you all talked about Siri. Right. Mm-hmm. Artificial intelligence. We’ve been using Siri for a long time, right? I talked to Siri all day, right? Uh, all these things around us, all the Alexas, all the Google homes, all of the ways it’s been learning us off for a decade, right? And now chat, G P T, and now the next level of, you know, ai.

Ashley on the radio right now. Answering calls. Okay. She answering calls. Okay. Ai Ashley is busy right now. Like what trill what is going? It’s on it. It’s, it’s, 

Tre’vell Anderson: it’s wild though, right? It’s, it’s super, because when you, when you realize that artificial intelligence is something that we. Have like subconsciously been using, right?

Maybe we didn’t call it that. You know, we didn’t know that Clippy, the little paper clip in Microsoft’s word back in the day is a [00:30:00] form of artificial intelligence, right? A lot of search engines are forms of artificial intelligence. You know, for us, we were most concerned about what does this mean for media?

What does this mean for, for journalism, right? Especially as we see more and more layoffs happening in our industry, right? Um, If these jobs come back, which they probably won’t because we’ll be replaced by, you know, chat, chat. G p T can write you an article a lot quicker than I can. Um, and then, you know, you can go and I don’t know if people have actually played with chat, G p T, you should just to familiarize yourself with, with.

What is possible, but you can have it write papers for you. You can then take that paper that it writes for you and tell it to, oh, this is a little too academic. Could you make it more conversational and it will make it more conversational. You know, I’m one of those people who watched iRobot. And I was like, oh no honey, you gotta watch out for the robots cause they gonna take over.[00:31:00] 

And I still feel that way a little bit, but it was really great to kind of tease that out on, on the show and with Jar, because I do think it’s, you know, it is a, a wild, wild west in a lot 

Anna DeShawn: of ways for us. It is right now, right? I mean, media and journalism, it is pretty scary to think about. How AI is gonna take folks jobs.

Mm-hmm. And the fact that those jobs probably won’t come back. And now what we know AI can’t do is have feelings. Right. Bring the humanity to a story. Right. We know that AI is currently scrubbing sites, um, media and journalism sites, not crediting. People for their work, right? There’s like a lot of things that absolutely are ethically wrong with AI right now, but then there’s also a lot of amazing things that can really be helpful, absolutely all at the same time.

So I think we’re all following what the next. Phase of AI will be, will the government intervene in some of the same ways they intervened with Limewire and music? You know, when I was in [00:32:00] college child, it was a whole new ok. 

Tre’vell Anderson: Oh 

Anna DeShawn: wow. What a throwback. I was busy. Okay, we don’t need to talk about no more about that one.

I was, uh, I was, I was busy doing some thankss now. No family. Um. If you don’t know Rell, uh, that’s all right. You go, you know them now, and they’re an author now. You know, they’re author. They have a wonderful book called, we See Each Other and, and I did an interview with Rell about this book. It’s an opportunity for you to get to know them, but also the television and film that has impacted their life.

It’s so wonderful addition to the canon that we all need to read. Okay? So just go by the book. I had to plug it. We see each other. Okay, go do that. All right. Now you have interviewed Leon Talley. Lori Harvey. Okay. Lil Nas X, you have covers. Okay. Essence Time Magazine, out Magazine, Ebony Magazine. But what I really wanna know about Trell I know is Janelle Monet [00:33:00] parties.

Okay? Because you were there and there’s a clip about it. So let’s just watch this clip and then I wanna talk about it. I also had 

Tre’vell Anderson: listened to it months ago when I interviewed Janelle Monet for the Ebony Magazine cover in March. Thank you very much. Wow. So I’ve been heard the album a flex. Okay. And I’m still playing it.

Okay. Cuz I think she got some, she got some kind of drugs in, in in them words. And in that music, I think it’s in the horns. Okay. Okay. I think it’s in the horns. You know how I feel about a horn? I’m, I’m being, I’m being for serious. 

Anna DeShawn: I’m being for serious cuz them horns Okay. Are working. You know, I love a horn this entire album.

What do you love about it? So for me, 

Tre’vell Anderson: I think, yeah, that, that vibe thing that you mentioned is, is there, but for me, I find it to be. So much in conversation with, you know, the things that I love about Renaissance, with the things that I [00:34:00] love about mm-hmm. Lil Nas X’s album with the things that I love about even, even just witnessing, um, Grace Jones at, at, uh, we Hope Pride the other week.

Um, like there is, there is, there’s something there. Right in those collection of, of images that feel right and feel of this moment and feel very necessary, right. 

Anna DeShawn: Yes, I feel very necessary. So the moment I realized y’all did video, I watch on YouTube. Okay. I, I, I love listening, but I love seeing, okay, there’s lots of things.

So, I mean, you really are on the pulse of culture. I mean, you are right there. How was the, how was that party? 

Tre’vell Anderson: I do what I can. So yes, I had the opportunity to attend, you know, Janelle Monnet was doing this like tour of listening parties leading up [00:35:00] to their album release. Um, and so I had a chance to be at the LA one.

Um, but I had pre, uh, interviewed them for the Ebony Magazine cover back in March. Um, and so I got a, a private listen of the album, um, before it came out. The version I heard didn’t have any of the features, um, for the record. Um, but you know, the, the 

Anna DeShawn: listening party, it was fun, it was cute, you know, 

Tre’vell Anderson: it was, yeah.

It’s always great to like see blacks. Spaces that are also unapologetically queer. Right. And I think as we’ve seen Janelle Monnet specifically, you know, um, um, come into herself in a public way right. As, as they’re doing with this particular album, um, it was just wonderful to, to be in that space to see, you know, fellow black queer people who are also, you know, in this entertainment media space.

Just, you know, 

Anna DeShawn: shake it out ass side to side with, you know, Janelle Monet. [00:36:00] Um, you know, until 

Tre’vell Anderson: it’s bedtime. Um, it was, it was a really good experience. Um, one of the wonderful, you know, perks of living in LA and, and doing the work that I do, 

Anna DeShawn: it is a perk. Okay. Uh, I, I don’t know about that price of living. You know Chicago.

Well, it’s expensive. 

Tre’vell Anderson: It’s expensive. 

Anna DeShawn: It’s expensive, but the, but the perks are pretty sweet cuz that Lipstick Glo video. I was like, who got the

May I one day be on the short list? Okay. Look like a lit time. So Terrell, tell us what can people expect from the podcast coming up? Yes, so 

Tre’vell Anderson: we are a weekly show. We come out every Thursday, wherever you get wonderful, uh, podcasts. Also bad podcasts too. We could be found everywhere. Um, and we have coming up.

On next week’s show, we actually, uh, pre-recorded it today. We, um, have been having ongoing [00:37:00] conversations about propaganda and how it shows up in our lives and the need for us to be like, you know, interrogating those images. And so we have, um, Deshaun l Harrison, who’s author of Belly of the Beast who joins us.

Um, and in this conversation we, we talk about propaganda and we connected to the conversation around, um, cop City in, in Atlanta, um, and how. You know, the images we see on screen, you know, might lead to, you know, folks believing that something like Cop City is, is necessary. Um, but we inter we do a little bit of everything.

We give you kind of your politics, um, type coverage cuz Jared is a political journalist by, you know, training, um, your, your culture and you know, your entertainment girly. Um, and so our conversations kind of, you know, run that gamut of, you know, our fabulous experiences as black queer folks who also happen to be journalists.

Anna DeShawn: Yes, yes, yes. So family, it’s that time. This time, let me tell you, this broadcast moves so quickly every year I’m like, wait, we almost [00:38:00] done. How is that a thing? How, uh, how is that a thing? So, Elsie, if you could bring Shayna and Chris back to the stage with us, uh, for a Q and a family, please. Type your questions.

I already got questions, so don’t worry. But while we would love to have your questions, uh, during this q and a period, while we have these amazing creatives here. So if you got podcasting questions, questions about being black and queer, podcasting, I don’t know anything about anything, um, put it in the chat.

Elsie is on the case. Um, Shayna and Chris, I didn’t ask y’all that question and I meant to. So what can people expect from y’all’s podcast coming up? 

Shana: Yeah, so we just have a lot of exciting changes coming up. We got our a hundred percent ownership rights of the podcast a few months ago, so we are full owners, we are parents.

We got our children doing things with the podcast. So we have a few changes that are coming up. We’ll have a new, new little look. We’ll have some new topics. We’ll have new spaces that you can [00:39:00] engage and interact with us, and we’re really excited to see what we can do as we lead the 

Anna DeShawn: charge. Yes. I love that.

I love that. All right, so I’m, I’m looking for questions. Elsie’s gonna post ’em in the chat. Um, Chris, I’d love to start with you, uh, with the q and a portion of things. So this podcast is about being unapologetic, about being black and queer and podcasting, you know, how does mm-hmm. The podcast and community really support black queer creators in this space.

How do you think we keep cultivating more pods, like the ones that everyone here has created? Hmm, that’s a good question. 

Kris: I, I would say continuing to support each other’s podcasts. I mean, there’s 

Anna DeShawn: a enough space for all of us. I 


Kris: Fanta. I love, you know, I mentioned the read earlier, I love new pod, black queer podcasts that start off and we make sure we support it.

So, um, continuing to shout each other out, share each other’s content when we can, and. Um, you know, guesting on each other’s [00:40:00] podcast, anything we could do to make sure that we’re supporting each other so that there is this big just kind of ecosystem of black queer podcasts and, and 

Anna DeShawn: voices out 

Kris: there, um, is gonna, you know, take us where we need to go and, you know, just keep a strong community.

Like we, um, we do have control of some of the 

Anna DeShawn: things, 

Kris: um, and this is one of ’em. So yeah, continuing to support each other. 

Anna DeShawn: Yeah, Shayna, Revell, anything to add today? I. 

Tre’vell Anderson: Yeah, I would just jump in and I’d say, I mean, I think this, the support part is important, but, but specifically for, you know, the folks who, I guess like myself who have a little bit of a platform, right?

Who, you know, got a little bit of success doing these things, um, I think oftentimes, right? We, you know, you get to a certain level and you be like, oh girl, I’m not going on that podcast over there. Or I’m not, You know, I’m not going to amplify the work that those folks are doing over there. Um, but I think [00:41:00] it’s important to always constantly amplify.

I try to do, anytime Anna calls me, I’m gonna be there. I’m gonna show up. Um, and I think like doing that is important even as we all kind of rise, um, with our own particular platforms. And I think beyond that, I mean, I, 

Shana: I mean, 

Tre’vell Anderson: I also think that there are, um, 

Anna DeShawn: Oh, I can’t wait. I think it’s important for us to also, 

Tre’vell Anderson: um, Spread the love in terms of the black queer queer podcast that we, we do platform 

Anna DeShawn: when we get a chance, right?


Tre’vell Anderson: Luter, read Luter, read Luter Friend Zone. We, we love those Titans, right? Of black queer. Podcasting, but there are so many others out there, right, who are doing really great work as well. And so, you know, like, um, Jared and I, we were just like featured for Pride Month in, uh, you know, apple [00:42:00] Podcast, little whatchamacallit, um, little profile, whatever they call them things.

But it was super important for us to like, like, you’re not gonna find the read on our list of suggestions. Not because the read is not great. Read is good. Okay. They don’t need the platform, right? No shade. So like how do we continuously just make sure that like we are uplifting folks who are doing really great work, even if they might not have, you know, the particular level of, of platform like some of the others do.

Anna DeShawn: Yes. And I wanna say thank you for that love on the Apple Podcasty. Thank you. Okay. I, my big upset Nicole Walker, who is our sponsorship manager, she was like, did you see this? I was like, no, I don’t even know. What are you talking about? She sent me the video. I said, oh, snaps uh, posted the video about it today.

It, it, it really does matter. I also say, I think in the podcasting space, promo swaps, Right feed swaps, supporting each other in that way, introducing audiences to [00:43:00] other audiences as black folks. Get into podcasting, right. Um, more and more every year, whatever’s happening in the larger industry that’s happening.

There’s layouts happening. There’s, you know, serious Stitcher just quit their app. You know, all those things are happening, but listenership from black and brown communities is going up. So, right. This isn’t a time for us to step away. It’s a time for us to double down in this space. Also, um, to y’all’s point around other, Black and queer pods, right?

We’ve got queer walk, big ups, adoptive money. We got t and j as well doing their thing. We had this broadcast last year, right? Um, highlighting other black and queer pods and we’ll make sure to show them more love. But there are a lot of us out here, um, um, doing our thing and we got questions from the audience, so thank y’all so much.

Don’t worry. I had it. I had it, but I appreciate y’all’s questions. All right, here we go. Uh, Shayna, let’s get a swing to you. Uh, what are some of the highs and lows of podcasting? Mm, child not, not already. All 

Shana: everybody’s head turn, all of the things. [00:44:00] I’ll start with the lows so we can finish with the highs.

Anna DeShawn: I think there we go. 

Shana: Time. Time is not on our hands and we have to make sure that it works. I think a lot of us who are doing things with podcasting are also doing 50 other things and. It’s a labor of love. Truly, when we do this to have these conversations, it’s fun. Chris and I talk about how podcasting is therapy all the time, especially because we are able to talk about our community and amplify the community and it’s great and we want to make sure we have time for therapy because it’s good for us.

And there’s so much that happens behind the scenes from the editing to the social media to the posting, it’s a job. It truly is a job. It truly is work. It’s rewarding work, but you have to recognize like the time that it takes, and sometimes you look and you’re just like, am I, am I even reaching anybody and are we doing any things and.

That’s where the highs come in, these types of events, talking to each other. Revell, we’re [00:45:00] gonna hit you up after this, don’t you worry. And you know, things like this that bring us together, bring our community together. When I moved to Chicago for me to be able to connect with all of the other podcasters that we had talked to, and now they are collective friends, is one of.

The best things that can come out of it. We’re building community with what we do. We’re seeing the difference with what we do. We’re highlighting stories that don’t get highlighted on everyday media or major media sources or portray us in the worst way, and we’re making sure to reclaim and take back our narrative.

And that’s a really empowering, fun, motivating thing to be able to do that as ourselves. And I couldn’t ask for anything better. 

Anna DeShawn: You didn’t even stay too long in the lows. I appreciate where you went. I do a little trip. We climbing 

Shana: up the slide, we climbing up here. Sometimes, you know, if it’s summer it might burn a little bit, 

Anna DeShawn: but we gonna make it like Chris and Rebel.

Y’all got any highs or lows y’all wanna share with the good people? 

Tre’vell Anderson: Um, yeah, I mean, I’d start with, I’ll start with the lows. Too, I think [00:46:00] like, you know, we are a show that, that we are blessed to be, we’re on a, a small network, but a network nonetheless, right? So we, we have a producer, um, who, you know, helps and handles the editing and the engineering, um, and all of that.

Praise the Lord cause my God, today. Um, but you know, to Shayna’s point, like so many podcasters write, the podcast is not the day job. The, the podcast is, is that extra thing. Um, and so having to do your nine to five and then do your podcast, my God, today. Um, and so like, I, I think of that. I also think of, to be quite honest, just like the, the.

Money side of, of this work. Like, you know, we, even with whatever marginal success that we have with fan tie baby, the coins ain’t rolling in, the advertisers ain’t rolling in like you might think they are. Right. Um, and so like that, that is, that is a [00:47:00] low. And I would say on the high side of things, it’s like, despite all of that, right, it is the building of community.

It is the, the types of conversations that we’ve been able to have that are deeply important to me. Um, I just did, uh, just finished a limited series podcast, um, based on the book called We See Each Other, the podcast. It’s nine episodes I co-hosted with, um, Shar Jael, who is a fabulous journalist who also happens to be a black trans woman.

Um, And ain’t nobody listening to that podcast. Right. And when you look at the numbers, ain’t nobody listening. Um, but the people who are listening, right, they’re engaged and the conversations that they’re having with us, you know, in the dms about the importance. Of what we’re doing. Like it’s that stuff that makes it feel worth it.

Even if, you know, the, the total listenership count right, isn’t where we would like it to be. Um, but like, you know, those are the things that I think keep us all going. It’s like that purpose and fee feeling the, [00:48:00] the impact of the work that we’re doing. Yeah. 

Anna DeShawn: Yeah, I know. That’s what keep me going, child. The numbers don’t be adding.

Okay. You be like, wait, I did everything they said. Got that. I did everything they said. I recorded articles, you know, I recorded audio quality, we bought the equipment. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We show up consistently. Okay. And what you say the numbers are? Wait, let me switch that. I a b off. Wait. Unique. Unique please.

Unique Only please. Around here. That’s much appreciated. All right. Um, this is an interesting question. Do you all need sponsors? If so, how much? And who do you want? That sounds like an ask to me. I will. Uh, bad queers. Y’all wanna take that one first? None that y’all, we do have a deck that we could 

Kris: share with rates and prices and one of the things we did not mention that’s obviously always good for support is money.

So yeah, we 

Anna DeShawn: could, we could share that information offline. So, I’m here [00:49:00] for it. I’m here for it. Yes. We all need sponsors, people who to buy ads. Right. Um, I know for me with Queer News, I try to be very thoughtful about the number of ads I include in the pod because I don’t want it to be full of ads, but also understanding that that is how media pays for itself.

If. If you watching something and ain’t got no ads, somebody paid for there not to be ads or for there to be that one ad. Okay? It at a premium rate. This is how we survive. So if you are listening to a podcast that you really love, my advice to you is don’t skip the ads. If you love them, don’t skip the ads.

Okay? Um, It’s, it’s helping the supplement income. Can I add something on that real quick? 

Tre’vell Anderson: Yeah, please. Not, not only don’t skip the ads, but if you happen to be somebody who has, you know, a little extra couple dollars or whatever, like engage with the, the ad, right? Like if we give you an ad a, a code. For something, right?

And you have a couple extra dollars, go actually buy it, right? Because then what that says to the advertiser, [00:50:00] right, is that them paying to have that ad on this specific show is something that they should keep doing, right? Um, and so it helps build, you know, this sort of ongoing revenue. Um, opportunity for the podcast.

Um, so like, yes, listen to the podcast, but also if you got the dollars and we know some of y’all do, okay, go ahead and buy the products or go to the websites or whatever, because that all is part of this like ecosystem to like keep our shows going and keep them profitable. 

Anna DeShawn: So, Period. That is, that is the message.

Okay. Um, as I drop a cold today, um, if you were in Chicago, you need to go to Lincoln Park tonight. Queer News. Okay. 20% off. Very good. Um, much appreciated. All right, y’all, it’s amazing. This hour’s almost up. We got two. More minutes before I’m gonna close this thing out. So I would love for you all to share how people can listen, how people can follow.

If you’ve got somewhere [00:51:00] that they can financially support, let’s share all that information right now so that they don’t leave here wondering how they can find you. So, uh, bad quiz y’all up first. All right, 

Shana: well you can find and follow us anywhere that you listen to your podcast. Just look up Bad Queers podcast.

You’ll see the yellow background. It is us. And same thing on social media. We are at Bad Queers Pod on all social media platforms. I was like, we do have a PayPal. We’re gonna get some other platforms that you can do. When, anytime you ever wanna fund us, just hit us in our dms. It’s a good time. But follow us in any of those places.

Please listen. Please support. Um, and thank you. Thank you for tuning into this broadcast with all of us as well. 


Anna DeShawn: REL 

Tre’vell Anderson: Yes. Um, so you can check out the Like I said, we’ve been doing it for three or four years or something like that. Um, we started like, A month before the pandemic.

Um, and so that was interesting. Same, um, 

Anna DeShawn: it together. 

Tre’vell Anderson: Um, beyond that, we are at Fanti podcasts on all of the socials, including the TikTok [00:52:00] machine. And, um, if you would like to become, I mentioned that we are part of Maximum Fund, which is a worker owned co-op network. Um, the way we get paid at Fanti is through membership subscriptions.

And so if you would like to become a financially contributing member, Of the Fanti Fam. You could do slash join. Praise the Lord. Um, and we would be so grateful. 

Anna DeShawn: I love how you so church. Okay. I can’t help. I’m fine. I can’t either. I can’t help it either. That’s, that’s why we get along so well.

Chris, Shayna Trevell, thank you so much for joining me tonight. Everybody in the audience, please thank them, um, for giving up their time and their energy tonight to share why being unapologetically black and queer podcasting is what they chose to do and we love y’all for it. So thank you so much for We love you Absolutely.

Shana: For bringing us onto this. So thank you. 

Anna DeShawn: Shout out to Anna Deshaun. Shout out to 

Shana: Elsie for making sure that this all ran smoothly. But we appreciate y’all for bringing us [00:53:00] in. 

Kris: Yeah, thank 

Anna DeShawn: y’all so much. And buy Rebel’s book y’all. 

Tre’vell Anderson: Yes, buy my book. See 

Anna DeShawn: each other Black Trans Journey through TV and 

Tre’vell Anderson: film wherever you get good, fabulous, wonderful books and bad ones too.


Anna DeShawn: you so much. You better have it on the ready. Yes, go get the book. Okay. Thank y’all. So. All right, y’all. Now family. Here’s the deal. We do this broadcast once a year. I saw somebody ask, when is the next one? I don’t know. Maybe we can get someone to sponsor this, right? And we can do this more regularly.

I do love having these conversations. I am passionate about amplifying black and brown and queer folks with queer folks of color voices here in the podcasting space. And what’s really exciting right now, too, is that the business, right? The company that I am building called the Queue. Right. We are ready to go live y’all.

We’ve been in beta for the last six months and I’m excited to share it with y’all tonight. [00:54:00] So, Elsie, you got me. Yes, so family right now today, you can go visit the All right, and you can begin discovering the very best Bipo and QT P podcast. All right, so I’m just gonna start scrolling just so you can see some of our catalog.

All right. We have curated all of these podcasts, literally. Two people listened to them. They rated them based upon audio quality, right? Co-host, uh, vibes and connections, quality, consistency, all the things we care about when it comes to podcasting and audio production. We have accepted over 94 podcasts into this platform, podcasts that I know you can’t find nowhere else because these other platforms weren’t.

Built to support it, and I am so excited for y’all to begin discovering these pods, and you can actually not only find them here, you [00:55:00] can listen too. When you click on a click on a piece of artwork, you can go and sign up and join the cube and listen to these pods from inside the cube. All right. Another exciting thing that’s happening right now is that we are going on tour.

We are going on tour. We are taking our podcast to the people. We create our own cube originals here, right? We are cute. Yeah. We ready? You ready? All the things you can go get your tickets today. We gonna start off in Brooklyn, New York with the Black Podcast Association Summer Social. Use our Code Cube 2023 for a major discount on your ticket.

We are going to have an amazing time. We’re going from Brooklyn to Manhattan to the D M V in Silver Spring. We’re gonna head out to Denver, then we’re gonna go to Minneapolis. All right, Atlanta, and we’re gonna end in Baltimore, Maryland. Here’s the deal. Here’s the deal. If we get some sponsorship, If we get sponsors, we will head to California.

I wanna hit la. I wanna hit San Diego, and I [00:56:00] want to hit Oakland. Okay? But we need sponsors to get that done. But I want y’all to know today, starting now, right? You can go to the cube, create you an account, begin discovering these amazing podcasts. If you have a podcast that you want to have as part of the cube, you can submit that for curation.

We gonna start the curation process back up here in a couple of months and I’m really, really excited about that. Come on, come on tour. We gonna have a good time out here. Okay. So family. Thank you again for tuning in tonight. Elsie, I wanna say thank you again for running this whole show, videos, people, tech screen share branding.

You did that my friend. I’m so thankful. So also thank you to SHE podcast. Thank you to Lipson for sponsoring. Right? And I hope that y’all enjoyed this. I hope you found some more podcasts for you to dig into and. That’s it. That’s all. So now, if there was somebody who didn’t watch this live, go share this or cross your socials.

Tell everybody how good this was and how wonderful of a [00:57:00] time you had. All right, now let me check my notes real quick. Make sure I ain’t forgetting nothing, I’ll think I did. So family, have a good night. Be safe out here and I’ll see y’all soon ladies.

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